loml

This statement was not directed at you jillio.

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Mookie

jillio

Mookie

Maybe you may not be a good teacher if you are not a parent yet....

loml

I agree that deaf children need to have language skills, however, you cannot dictate to parents what method they choose for their child.

Language delay for any child creates its challenges. Your solution for this is what exactly?

The use of the word force is getting quite monotonous. Parents and proffesionals incorporate methods that they believe will work. Undeniably, for some it does.


ASL is difficult to learn, as is English. The dynamics of every family are different. I would not aggree with your choice of word here: refuse.

I fully support deaf children having the language of their family as quickly as possible for inclusion and communication.

You obviously do not know me very well.

The choice of method, for communication, imo, should be an informed family decision. There needs to be a freeflow of information regarding all methods presented by unbiased individuals, who are not trying to guilt the family into a process that can/does lead indubitably to literacy skills that are less than that of their hearing peers.


I agree.

Interesting.

Language is one of the life skills for independance, but having ASL as your only attainable language does not make deaf children independant. imo

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Sweetmind

http://www.alldeaf.com/deaf-education/29800-blind-out-touch-brialle.html Read this loml.. la la and

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loml

Good to know where I stand then.

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- Dr. Edward C. Merrill, Jr. past president of Gallaudet

loml

Done like dinner.

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- Dr. Edward C. Merrill, Jr. past president of Gallaudet

Sweetmind

Thats how hearing people treat Deaf children all along thats why we stand up for a good reason.. You think you know it all about us Deaf people but YOU DONT. You dont know what it s alike to be deaf. So be it!

Too much denial!

Mookie, of course she has her children at home.

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"Tell the mothers I said, "Don't try to change your child; you are the adult, you bear the burden of change" - Harlan Lane

jillio

Thank you, Sweetmind. I would enjoy meeting you, too. Maybe will happen someday!

loml--obviously you don't know me very well! I do not try to dictate to anyone. I only share my experience and hope they can learn something from it that is valuable to them. I know what my experience has been, and what my son's experience has been. I know how much harm the audist attitude did to him. I have communicated with more Deaf people than I can count whose experience has been the same as mine. And you have no idea how many battles I've fought so that my son would be allowed to use the language that is his birthright. You have no idea how many tears I cried because of the unfair and predjudiced treatment he has recieved too many times from the hearing world. When my son was diagnosed deaf, and I was confused and lost and didn't know what to do to help my son, the Deaf community came to my aid. They didn't treat my son like he was something inferior that had a disease that needed to be cured. They helped my son develop a healthy identity, and they helped me to be a better parent. Unless you have walked in my shoes, and been where I have been, you have no business criticising me or my beliefs or my attitudes or my choices.

treenz

Over and over - your discussions is not new to me - having heard this kind of thing discussed so many many time in my country in the down-under New Zealand.

I am Deaf - born to hearing parents - a boarder at school for deaf children at age of 4 n half years old in 1943.

Deaf children there signed all the time yet we were taught to lipread and speak. I had the sign language skills learnt in one term!!! But took me years to learn to speak and mixwith normal hearing children.

When as 23 year old, i worked with deaf children as a "minder" for boarders. i felt for them and i understood them no problem. I was sad to see some teachers would never totally understand these children.

But in the long run - my employment there as a first deaf person in that job has woken something up in some of the staff working there. i said "talking to children is very important as they learn from us all different people around them every day". One teacher didn't like what i said. She said she is teaching... I said what about talking about what's happening around us? The normal children listen to everybody every day, the bus driver, parents talking to one another, people taking in the shop and neighbours talking to one another - deaf child misses out... teacher didn't like me much...but

twenty years later after more and more deaf people worked in that school; the NZSL was finally introduced and being allowed to be used as an educational tool for all Deaf children in that school. (long story cut short here)

more than twenty Deaf people are now working as teachers, minders, sign language assistants and a museum person.

Tousi

Wow, I missed this topic and I see it's been off-topic for several pages now.

Related to the topic at hand, Post # 20 on page 1 says it best: VRS is NOT going anywhere.

Lots of unnecessary venom going on these past few pages....no socially redeeming value in that, folks.

jillio

That is exactly what I was trying to say. Deaf people all over the world have something in common, and they are the ones who know what our children need because they have been there. How can a hearie tell me what my son thinks and responds to and how to make the best decisions for him as a Deaf person?

SxyPorkie

Yes we all were off the topic.. IT IS VRSTERP'S FAULT that we went off the topic.... that person had labelling us deafies who are on SSDI and SSI being lazy... that person is WRONG...

Thanks!!

SxyPorkie... (i am back from hospital)

skynet

well i agree with FCC cutting! i dont support VRS such as Sorenson! When u use Vrs u cannot Dial 911! Bec those 911 must have an actually phsycial phone number to trace the call from ur home. VRS it very impossible to trace is bec it come from IP! Those Service dont have an Technology for that. Only the Security system has it.

Dont need VRS. Those are the business that want to take advantage of Goverment Disability's money. I done throw Sorenson VRS in trash long time ago! Screw them

LuciaDisturbed

What a waste. Someone else could have gotten good use from your VP....

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Boult

yeah like using it for point to point video chat eh.. *shrug*

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rockdrummer

WOW! I totally disagree with you on this. As I see it the VP is the successor to the archiac TTY. Not only that, it is great for a hearing guy like me to communicate with deaf people weither I know sign or not. IMO, it closes the gap a bit between hearing a deaf. And I'm sure it's much eaiser for deaf people to communicate with eachother on a VP instead of a TTY. A picture is worth a thousand words. With regards to emergencies, you can always pick up the phone to dial 911. I agree that there should be some mechanism in place to make emergency calls from the VP and hopefully that is something that will be available soon. You always have the option to contact the VRS and suggest that they have some emergency procedures in place. Just a thought.

Thank you

loml

jillioIf a children have access to complete language there would be ongoing communication and a deaf child would/could be raised similiar to their siblings or friends. If the deaf child has complete access to language within the family unit then the child themselves will tell you what they think.

Granted there are shared experiences amongest deaf people, but to entrust decions for your child to other people because they are deaf, is very strange to me.

__________________
- Dr. Edward C. Merrill, Jr. past president of Gallaudet

loml

jillioI agree all people need language skills.

jillioI cannot say all studies, as I have not read all of them, but I would agree that access to a complete accurate model of language, enables a child to acquire language.

jillio[quote]Who does worse in school and socially? Deaf kis, hearing parents. Why? NO LANGUAGE! Try to force to use spoken language. Parents refuse to learn ASL. Kids are language delayed, and it affects their abilities to think, to judge their world, to make friends, to develop an identity and be happy with who they are, to be proud of themselve, to feel a part of something./QUOTE]

Any child with limited or no language pays an enormous price. Parents need to be informed with regards to all their choices for communication, language and inclusion. Currently, I do not believe that is the case, although the internet is having some impact.

jillioIf that is how you interpret what I write, then you are indeed mistaken. We all are all different, free will being the component here for me.

jillioI would agree that ASL is a beautiful expressive language. I also believe that many hearing people get romanced by ASL. I would state that the ability to use a complete language enpowers an individual, it is not however, the only quality involved in the making of independance.

__________________
- Dr. Edward C. Merrill, Jr. past president of Gallaudet

SxyPorkie

It is true... deaf children of deaf parents are easy to learn.. it comes naturally....I was HOH but my parents were deaf.... my first langauge were ASL... before i learned to speak....

SxyPorkie

jillio

I did not entrust the decisions for my child to anyone else. I made my own decisions. But I was only able to make informed because the Deaf community provided me with information that was being withheld by the auditory verbal nazis I came in contact with. It was my experience that the so called experts wanted me to abdicate my decisions to them. They presented an attitude of "We know what's best for your child. Just do what we tell you and don't ask questions."

And yes, I relied on the shared experiences of the Deaf community. Those were the experiences I needed to know about in order to make good decisions. I had never been a deaf child, but the adults in the Deaf community had that experience. They could explain it to me and open my mind to new ways of thinking. As a consequence, my decisions took all points into consideration.

My son is deaf, I am hearing. I could not provide him complete access to language, until I learned sign. Even then, I was learning along with him. Only native signers could give him the same kind of exposure to language that hearing children get from hearing parents on a daily constant basis. I needed the deaf community for that. They are the true experts. What they have to offer does not come out of a book or a classroom. It is life experience, and more valuable than other tools available to hearies who have deaf kids.

And by the way, I have read the research.

jillio

[quote=loml]jillio

I agree all people need language skills.

jillio

I cannot say all studies, as I have not read all of them, but I would agree that access to a complete accurate model of language, enables a child to acquire language.

jillioIf you take the ability to use language, then you also remove the free will or the capabilty of utilizing free will. Language is the most important component in the development of independance. Language affects not just the ability to communicate, but to cognitively process the world around us. With no language come no thought. With limited language comes limited thought. And I have not been "romanced" by ASL. I somply appreciate it for what it is.