Sighs! Read this ! - Page 5

loml · 06-22-2006, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loml

loml

Yet another question that goes unanswered.

This statement was not directed at you jillio.

06-22-2006, 10:25 AM

jillio

06-22-2006, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loml

Mookie,

That is the way the interent works. The "tone" I hear in jillios' first post is, for me, grandiloquent.

Children or no children, has no bearing for me.

Maybe you may not be a good teacher if you are not a parent yet....

loml · 06-22-2006, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I don't wish future generations to be dependant. I want them to be independant, just as hearing are independant. To do that, they must have language skills. LANGUAGE, NOT SPOKEN LANGUAGE< NOT VERBAL LANGUAGE!

I agree that deaf children need to have language skills, however, you cannot dictate to parents what method they choose for their child.

Quote:

All studies show that deaf kids of deaf parents perform better in school and also socially. Why? Because they developed LANGUAGE early and naturally through parents use of ASL. Who does worse in school and socially? Deaf kis, hearing parents. Why? NO LANGUAGE!

Language delay for any child creates its challenges. Your solution for this is what exactly?

Quote:

Try to force to use spoken language.

The use of the word force is getting quite monotonous.

Parents and proffesionals incorporate methods that they believe will work. Undeniably, for some it does.

Quote:

Parents refuse to learn ASL.

ASL is difficult to learn, as is English. The dynamics of every family are different. I would not aggree with your choice of word here: refuse.

Quote:

Kids are language delayed, and it affects their abilities to think, to judge their world, to make friends, to develop an identity and be happy with who they are, to be proud of themselve, to feel a part of something.

I fully support deaf children having the language of their family as quickly as possible for inclusion and communication.

Quote:

You seem to think that VERBAL is better than SIGN.

You obviously do not know me very well.

Quote:

Not true. Both are equal. But verbal language is for hearing people, and sign is for Deaf people. That is why deaf children who are never exposed to ASL will make up home signs. It is their natural language.

The choice of method, for communication, imo, should be an informed family decision. There needs to be a freeflow of information regarding all methods presented by unbiased individuals, who are not trying to guilt the family into a process that can/does lead indubitably to literacy skills that are less than that of their hearing peers.

Quote:

I personally find ASL to be a beautiful expressive language.

I agree.

Quote:

There are some things I can say in ASL that I can't say in English, because they look right in ASL, but don't sound right in English.

Interesting.

Quote:

My point is, language is necessary for independance. Not English, but language.

Language is one of the life skills for independance, but having ASL as your only attainable language does not make deaf children independant. imo

Sweetmind · 06-22-2006, 11:04 AM

http://www.alldeaf.com/deaf-education/29800-blind-out-touch-brialle.html Read this loml.. la la and

loml · 06-22-2006, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetmind

Thank you, Jillo for standing up for us and our Deaf rights. Jillo got that right spot to answer it.

Quote:

It s totally waste of my time to deal with this person that I ignored all the way because of her bigotry audist attitude that I m tired of this BS. I have said it too many times that we can do anything except hear.

Good to know where I stand then.

Quote:

Deaf children need a true language that would be ASL from the start. It s so beautiful language that helps us to understand the body language, facial expression, and emotion tones. It s our visualization that we are depending on all the time that no one can stop us from our true adapations and have no problem with it. It s more freedom to independent that s what I m trying to say.

We have no problem with our hearing children that we respect very much and taught them in ASL that works so well. It helps them to use that skills and focus with their receptive eyes to have a good speller, reading, and writing. Too many parents are making their excuses for not able to adapt themselves and face the Deaf reality that they need to respect Deaf child s rights. No more abusive toward Deaf children that they want us to speak and hear only that is not a very positive reinforcement toward Deaf children s lives. It s so sad it s still exists today. It s not for hearing parents or hearing people's sake only. It s for Deaf children's sake and their important needs to have that intellectual and social motor skills. Oral rules is not the winner anyhow.

I am so glad Jillo has very good positive attitude and reinforced into the positve outlook about Deaf children s true identity and true language.

I wish there are many parents like her out there.

I want to give my warm

to Jillo, I would love to meet her in person that I respect so much.

Sweetmind

loml · 06-22-2006, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetmind

http://www.alldeaf.com/showthread.php?t=29800 Read this loml.. la la

Quote:

It s totally waste of my time to deal with this person that I ignored all the way because of her bigotry audist attitude that I m tired of this BS.

Done like dinner.

Sweetmind · 06-22-2006, 11:15 AM

Thats how hearing people treat Deaf children all along thats why we stand up for a good reason.. You think you know it all about us Deaf people but YOU DONT. You dont know what it s alike to be deaf. So be it!

Too much denial!

Mookie, of course she has her children at home.

jillio · 06-26-2006, 02:40 PM

Thank you, Sweetmind. I would enjoy meeting you, too. Maybe will happen someday!

loml--obviously you don't know me very well! I do not try to dictate to anyone. I only share my experience and hope they can learn something from it that is valuable to them. I know what my experience has been, and what my son's experience has been. I know how much harm the audist attitude did to him. I have communicated with more Deaf people than I can count whose experience has been the same as mine. And you have no idea how many battles I've fought so that my son would be allowed to use the language that is his birthright. You have no idea how many tears I cried because of the unfair and predjudiced treatment he has recieved too many times from the hearing world. When my son was diagnosed deaf, and I was confused and lost and didn't know what to do to help my son, the Deaf community came to my aid. They didn't treat my son like he was something inferior that had a disease that needed to be cured. They helped my son develop a healthy identity, and they helped me to be a better parent. Unless you have walked in my shoes, and been where I have been, you have no business criticising me or my beliefs or my attitudes or my choices.

treenz · 06-27-2006, 06:38 AM

Over and over - your discussions is not new to me - having heard this kind of thing discussed so many many time in my country in the down-under New Zealand.

I am Deaf - born to hearing parents - a boarder at school for deaf children at age of 4 n half years old in 1943.

Deaf children there signed all the time yet we were taught to lipread and speak. I had the sign language skills learnt in one term!!! But took me years to learn to speak and mixwith normal hearing children.

When as 23 year old, i worked with deaf children as a "minder" for boarders. i felt for them and i understood them no problem. I was sad to see some teachers would never totally understand these children.

But in the long run - my employment there as a first deaf person in that job has woken something up in some of the staff working there. i said "talking to children is very important as they learn from us all different people around them every day". One teacher didn't like what i said. She said she is teaching... I said what about talking about what's happening around us? The normal children listen to everybody every day, the bus driver, parents talking to one another, people taking in the shop and neighbours talking to one another - deaf child misses out... teacher didn't like me much...but

twenty years later after more and more deaf people worked in that school; the NZSL was finally introduced and being allowed to be used as an educational tool for all Deaf children in that school. (long story cut short here)

more than twenty Deaf people are now working as teachers, minders, sign language assistants and a museum person.

Tousi · 06-27-2006, 02:24 PM

Wow, I missed this topic and I see it's been off-topic for several pages now.

Related to the topic at hand, Post # 20 on page 1 says it best: VRS is NOT going anywhere.

Lots of unnecessary venom going on these past few pages....no socially redeeming value in that, folks.

jillio · 06-27-2006, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treenz

Over and over - your discussions is not new to me - having heard this kind of thing discussed so many many time in my country in the down-under New Zealand.

I am Deaf - born to hearing parents - a boarder at school for deaf children at age of 4 n half years old in 1943.

Deaf children there signed all the time yet we were taught to lipread and speak. I had the sign language skills learnt in one term!!! But took me years to learn to speak and mixwith normal hearing children.

When as 23 year old, i worked with deaf children as a "minder" for boarders. i felt for them and i understood them no problem. I was sad to see some teachers would never totally understand these children.

But in the long run - my employment there as a first deaf person in that job has woken something up in some of the staff working there. i said "talking to children is very important as they learn from us all different people around them every day". One teacher didn't like what i said. She said she is teaching... I said what about talking about what's happening around us? The normal children listen to everybody every day, the bus driver, parents talking to one another, people taking in the shop and neighbours talking to one another - deaf child misses out... teacher didn't like me much...but

twenty years later after more and more deaf people worked in that school; the NZSL was finally introduced and being allowed to be used as an educational tool for all Deaf children in that school. (long story cut short here)

more than twenty Deaf people are now working as teachers, minders, sign language assistants and a museum person.

That is exactly what I was trying to say. Deaf people all over the world have something in common, and they are the ones who know what our children need because they have been there. How can a hearie tell me what my son thinks and responds to and how to make the best decisions for him as a Deaf person?

SxyPorkie · 06-27-2006, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

Wow, I missed this topic and I see it's been off-topic for several pages now.

Related to the topic at hand, Post # 20 on page 1 says it best: VRS is NOT going anywhere.

Lots of unnecessary venom going on these past few pages....no socially redeeming value in that, folks.

Yes we all were off the topic.. IT IS VRSTERP'S FAULT that we went off the topic.... that person had labelling us deafies who are on SSDI and SSI being lazy... that person is WRONG...

Thanks!!

SxyPorkie... (i am back from hospital)

skynet · 06-28-2006, 08:17 PM

well i agree with FCC cutting! i dont support VRS such as Sorenson! When u use Vrs u cannot Dial 911! Bec those 911 must have an actually phsycial phone number to trace the call from ur home. VRS it very impossible to trace is bec it come from IP! Those Service dont have an Technology for that. Only the Security system has it.

Dont need VRS. Those are the business that want to take advantage of Goverment Disability's money. I done throw Sorenson VRS in trash long time ago! Screw them

LuciaDisturbed · 06-28-2006, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skynet

well i agree with FCC cutting! i dont support VRS such as Sorenson! When u use Vrs u cannot Dial 911! Bec those 911 must have an actually phsycial phone number to trace the call from ur home. VRS it very impossible to trace is bec it come from IP! Those Service dont have an Technology for that. Only the Security system has it.

Dont need VRS. Those are the business that want to take advantage of Goverment Disability's money. I done throw Sorenson VRS in trash long time ago! Screw them

What a waste. Someone else could have gotten good use from your VP....

Boult · 06-29-2006, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuciaDisturbed

What a waste. Someone else could have gotten good use from your VP....

yeah like using it for point to point video chat eh.. *shrug*

rockdrummer · 06-29-2006, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skynet

well i agree with FCC cutting! i dont support VRS such as Sorenson! When u use Vrs u cannot Dial 911! Bec those 911 must have an actually phsycial phone number to trace the call from ur home. VRS it very impossible to trace is bec it come from IP! Those Service dont have an Technology for that. Only the Security system has it.

Dont need VRS. Those are the business that want to take advantage of Goverment Disability's money. I done throw Sorenson VRS in trash long time ago! Screw them

WOW! I totally disagree with you on this. As I see it the VP is the successor to the archiac TTY. Not only that, it is great for a hearing guy like me to communicate with deaf people weither I know sign or not. IMO, it closes the gap a bit between hearing a deaf. And I'm sure it's much eaiser for deaf people to communicate with eachother on a VP instead of a TTY. A picture is worth a thousand words. With regards to emergencies, you can always pick up the phone to dial 911. I agree that there should be some mechanism in place to make emergency calls from the VP and hopefully that is something that will be available soon. You always have the option to contact the VRS and suggest that they have some emergency procedures in place. Just a thought.

Thank you

loml · 06-29-2006, 06:59 PM

jillio

Quote:

Deaf people all over the world have something in common, and they are the ones who know what our children need because they have been there. How can a hearie tell me what my son thinks and responds to and how to make the best decisions for him as a Deaf person

If a children have access to complete language there would be ongoing communication and a deaf child would/could be raised similiar to their siblings or friends. If the deaf child has complete access to language within the family unit then the child themselves will tell you what they think.

Granted there are shared experiences amongest deaf people, but to entrust decions for your child to other people because they are deaf, is very strange to me.

loml · 06-29-2006, 07:39 PM

jillio

Quote:

I don't wish future generations to be dependant. I want them to be independant, just as hearing are independant. To do that, they must have language skills

I agree all people need language skills.

jillio

Quote:

All studies show that deaf kids of deaf parents perform better in school and also socially. Why? Because they developed LANGUAGE early and naturally through parents use of ASL

I cannot say all studies, as I have not read all of them, but I would agree that access to a complete accurate model of language, enables a child to acquire language.

jillio[quote]Who does worse in school and socially? Deaf kis, hearing parents. Why? NO LANGUAGE! Try to force to use spoken language. Parents refuse to learn ASL. Kids are language delayed, and it affects their abilities to think, to judge their world, to make friends, to develop an identity and be happy with who they are, to be proud of themselve, to feel a part of something./QUOTE]

Any child with limited or no language pays an enormous price. Parents need to be informed with regards to all their choices for communication, language and inclusion. Currently, I do not believe that is the case, although the internet is having some impact.

jillio

Quote:

You seem to think that VERBAL is better than SIGN. Not true. Both are equal. But verbal language is for hearing people, and sign is for Deaf people. That is why deaf children who are never exposed to ASL will make up home signs. It is their natural language.

If that is how you interpret what I write, then you are indeed mistaken. We all are all different, free will being the component here for me.

jillio

Quote:

I personally find ASL to be a beautiful expressive language. There are some things I can say in ASL that I can't say in English, because they look right in ASL, but don't sound right in English. My point is, language is necessary for independance. Not English, but language

I would agree that ASL is a beautiful expressive language. I also believe that many hearing people get romanced by ASL. I would state that the ability to use a complete language enpowers an individual, it is not however, the only quality involved in the making of independance.

SxyPorkie · 06-29-2006, 10:40 PM

It is true... deaf children of deaf parents are easy to learn.. it comes naturally....I was HOH but my parents were deaf.... my first langauge were ASL... before i learned to speak....

SxyPorkie

jillio · 06-30-2006, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loml

jillio

If a children have access to complete language there would be ongoing communication and a deaf child would/could be raised similiar to their siblings or friends. If the deaf child has complete access to language within the family unit then the child themselves will tell you what they think.

Granted there are shared experiences amongest deaf people, but to entrust decions for your child to other people because they are deaf, is very strange to me.

I did not entrust the decisions for my child to anyone else. I made my own decisions. But I was only able to make informed because the Deaf community provided me with information that was being withheld by the auditory verbal nazis I came in contact with. It was my experience that the so called experts wanted me to abdicate my decisions to them. They presented an attitude of "We know what's best for your child. Just do what we tell you and don't ask questions."

And yes, I relied on the shared experiences of the Deaf community. Those were the experiences I needed to know about in order to make good decisions. I had never been a deaf child, but the adults in the Deaf community had that experience. They could explain it to me and open my mind to new ways of thinking. As a consequence, my decisions took all points into consideration.

My son is deaf, I am hearing. I could not provide him complete access to language, until I learned sign. Even then, I was learning along with him. Only native signers could give him the same kind of exposure to language that hearing children get from hearing parents on a daily constant basis. I needed the deaf community for that. They are the true experts. What they have to offer does not come out of a book or a classroom. It is life experience, and more valuable than other tools available to hearies who have deaf kids.

And by the way, I have read the research.

jillio · 06-30-2006, 11:58 AM

[quote=loml]jillio

I agree all people need language skills.

jillio

I cannot say all studies, as I have not read all of them, but I would agree that access to a complete accurate model of language, enables a child to acquire language.

jillio

Quote:

Who does worse in school and socially? Deaf kis, hearing parents. Why? NO LANGUAGE! Try to force to use spoken language. Parents refuse to learn ASL. Kids are language delayed, and it affects their abilities to think, to judge their world, to make friends, to develop an identity and be happy with who they are, to be proud of themselve, to feel a part of something./QUOTE]

Any child with limited or no language pays an enormous price. Parents need to be informed with regards to all their choices for communication, language and inclusion. Currently, I do not believe that is the case, although the internet is having some impact.

jillio

If that is how you interpret what I write, then you are indeed mistaken. We all are all different, free will being the component here for me.

jillio

I would agree that ASL is a beautiful expressive language. I also believe that many hearing people get romanced by ASL. I would state that the ability to use a complete language enpowers an individual, it is not however, the only quality involved in the making of independance.

If you take the ability to use language, then you also remove the free will or the capabilty of utilizing free will. Language is the most important component in the development of independance. Language affects not just the ability to communicate, but to cognitively process the world around us. With no language come no thought. With limited language comes limited thought. And I have not been "romanced" by ASL. I somply appreciate it for what it is.

06-22-2006, 11:04 AM	#125 (permalink)
Sweetmind Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 788	http://www.alldeaf.com/deaf-education/29800-blind-out-touch-brialle.html Read this loml.. la la and __________________ "Tell the mothers I said, "Don't try to change your child; you are the adult, you bear the burden of change" - Harlan Lane

06-22-2006, 11:15 AM	#128 (permalink)
Sweetmind Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 788	Thats how hearing people treat Deaf children all along thats why we stand up for a good reason.. You think you know it all about us Deaf people but YOU DONT. You dont know what it s alike to be deaf. So be it! Too much denial! Mookie, of course she has her children at home. __________________ "Tell the mothers I said, "Don't try to change your child; you are the adult, you bear the burden of change" - Harlan Lane

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06-22-2006, 10:25 AM	#122 (permalink)
Mookie Guest Posts: n/a	jillio

06-26-2006, 02:40 PM	#129 (permalink)
jillio Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 13,626	Thank you, Sweetmind. I would enjoy meeting you, too. Maybe will happen someday! loml--obviously you don't know me very well! I do not try to dictate to anyone. I only share my experience and hope they can learn something from it that is valuable to them. I know what my experience has been, and what my son's experience has been. I know how much harm the audist attitude did to him. I have communicated with more Deaf people than I can count whose experience has been the same as mine. And you have no idea how many battles I've fought so that my son would be allowed to use the language that is his birthright. You have no idea how many tears I cried because of the unfair and predjudiced treatment he has recieved too many times from the hearing world. When my son was diagnosed deaf, and I was confused and lost and didn't know what to do to help my son, the Deaf community came to my aid. They didn't treat my son like he was something inferior that had a disease that needed to be cured. They helped my son develop a healthy identity, and they helped me to be a better parent. Unless you have walked in my shoes, and been where I have been, you have no business criticising me or my beliefs or my attitudes or my choices.

06-27-2006, 06:38 AM	#130 (permalink)
treenz treenz Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 2	Over and over - your discussions is not new to me - having heard this kind of thing discussed so many many time in my country in the down-under New Zealand. I am Deaf - born to hearing parents - a boarder at school for deaf children at age of 4 n half years old in 1943. Deaf children there signed all the time yet we were taught to lipread and speak. I had the sign language skills learnt in one term!!! But took me years to learn to speak and mixwith normal hearing children. When as 23 year old, i worked with deaf children as a "minder" for boarders. i felt for them and i understood them no problem. I was sad to see some teachers would never totally understand these children. But in the long run - my employment there as a first deaf person in that job has woken something up in some of the staff working there. i said "talking to children is very important as they learn from us all different people around them every day". One teacher didn't like what i said. She said she is teaching... I said what about talking about what's happening around us? The normal children listen to everybody every day, the bus driver, parents talking to one another, people taking in the shop and neighbours talking to one another - deaf child misses out... teacher didn't like me much...but twenty years later after more and more deaf people worked in that school; the NZSL was finally introduced and being allowed to be used as an educational tool for all Deaf children in that school. (long story cut short here) more than twenty Deaf people are now working as teachers, minders, sign language assistants and a museum person.

06-27-2006, 02:24 PM	#131 (permalink)
Tousi Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 6,792	Wow, I missed this topic and I see it's been off-topic for several pages now. Related to the topic at hand, Post # 20 on page 1 says it best: VRS is NOT going anywhere. Lots of unnecessary venom going on these past few pages....no socially redeeming value in that, folks.

06-28-2006, 08:17 PM	#134 (permalink)
skynet Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 15	well i agree with FCC cutting! i dont support VRS such as Sorenson! When u use Vrs u cannot Dial 911! Bec those 911 must have an actually phsycial phone number to trace the call from ur home. VRS it very impossible to trace is bec it come from IP! Those Service dont have an Technology for that. Only the Security system has it. Dont need VRS. Those are the business that want to take advantage of Goverment Disability's money. I done throw Sorenson VRS in trash long time ago! Screw them

06-29-2006, 10:40 PM	#140 (permalink)
SxyPorkie SxyPorkie Join Date: May 2006 Location: Southern California Posts: 3,081	It is true... deaf children of deaf parents are easy to learn.. it comes naturally....I was HOH but my parents were deaf.... my first langauge were ASL... before i learned to speak.... SxyPorkie