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Originally Posted by Deaf258
You're just naive.
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Did I disrespect you by calling you names? No, I did not, so please do not disrespect me by calling me names.
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Originally Posted by Deaf258
On the other hand about captioning, what do you know about the recent issue where FCC was about to permit no captioning for hundreds of TV programs?
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The recent decision for the FCC to not mandade captions for religious services is terrible; I agree. If you have a problem, write the FCC, your congressman and senator: anything. Don't complain. Do something about it!
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Originally Posted by Deaf258
Why should we bother trying to be the example when hearing people don't give a damn? If they see our ASL vlogs that aren't captioned, the hearing people will feel the frustration that we Deaf people felt for a very long time. They will understand and appreciate the experience much better than to watch something already captioned FOR the hearing people. They take everything for granted, so why should we comply with their expectations???
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My friend Nader is Hearing. He is Blind. What kind of message do you think you give him when he cannot access your ASL VLog because it neither has audio nor text? Do you think he will appreciate the experience or suffer it? Do you think for one day in his life he takes either hearing or sight for granted?
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Originally Posted by Deaf258
Again, it goes back the the main issue: money and timing. Not everyone have the luxury of having both available at all times when making vlogs AND captioning them.
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You could ask me, and I would happily show you how you can easily caption your videos quickly for free. In fact, I am not the only person who is Hearing to show people who are Deaf and Hard–of–Hearing how to caption their VLogs for free. Take a look at
Daniel Greene.
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Originally Posted by Deaf258
There is also another website that will take ASL vlog and type out the transcripts for the "Blind, DeafBlind, or Dyslexic" people. I don't remember the site's URL though.
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Text is required. The W3C (World Wide Web Consortium)
requires that every creators "provide a text equivalent for every non-text element."
[1] A person who is Dyslexic could still access a VLog with closed captions by using a screen reader to read the captions aloud.
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Originally Posted by ismi
In fact, if Ella provided a transcript, perhaps I would be better able to understand her position on this issue, and agree with her; as it is, I'm learning about it second-hand, and quite possibly things are being distorted along the way.
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That's correct. Text in addtion to non–text provides access.
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Originally Posted by ismi
An eye for an eye leaves the world blind.
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Also correct. Negative behavior only leads to more negative behavior.
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Originally Posted by ismi
Very naive. All it means is that a hearing person who stumbles across a vlog that isn't captioned will ignore it and move on, rather than take a moment to check it out.
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Remember, negative behavior only leads to more negative behaviour. Do not call names such as "naive", however, it is true that a person you cannot access information cannot understand it.
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Originally Posted by ismi
True. And no one should be forced to caption their vlogs; that would be ridiculous. But at the same time, it should be recognized that captioning your vlogs is a good thing for the community as a whole.
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Right, I never said people
must caption their VLogs. I simply asked if they
should.
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Originally Posted by HearingSwede
By voting no I'm not saying that it's bad to caption vlogs, but that more or less forcing people into doing it (by making them feel really bad if they don't) is wrong. If the choice is between posting a vlog entry with captions and not posting at all, you'll end up with fewer vlogs. If people feel they have the time and energy to add captions, that's a good thing. Encourage captions and transcripts, by all means, but don't shame people into doing it.
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Again, I do not mandate people to caption their VLogs, and I do not believe we should punish people who do not caption their VLogs. I do believe we should congratulate people who do for their efforts to provide accessibility.
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Originally Posted by HearingSwede
If the signing is very fast, out of focus and done in poor lighting I understand almost nothing. On the other hand, I don't think I'm the only one who prefers clear over grainy and poorly lit.
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Now imagine how a person who is Blind or Low–Vision feels when trying to understand a VLog. If they cannot access the information, then they cannot understand it.
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Originally Posted by Gamer12
Well, say, in many videos I browsed through, some hearing people make fun of Deaf culture and Deaf people. I don't see any complaints from you. Sorry but don't expect me to take your complaint for "David Oral and ASL" seriously at this very moment.
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Negative behavior only leads to more negative behavior. You must be the change you wish to see in the world. Your positive behavior in captioning your VLogs will lead to more positve behavior of others also captioning their VLogs.
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Originally Posted by Gamer12
I'm assiduously curious about your opinion regarding captioning the vlogs. Why don't all d/Deaf bloggers ASL-caption their blogs? I'm sick and tired of reading the blogs on poorly designed layouts, small and bad-colored texts, countless typos, and so on. It would be a nice break from reading innumerable text-based materials namely newspapers, blogs, books, magazines for me to watch d/Deaf bloggers signing in ASL. Think about it, Blind or DeafBlind couldn't or have a difficult time reading the texts so think about the wonderful endless possibilities of ASL-captioned blogs for them!
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A person who uses a screen reader or refreshable braille display finds the color of text irrelevant. Thus, the color of texts is not a handicap for them, and it does not impair their ability to understand the information. A person who is Deaf or Hard–of–Hearing does find color of text relevant, because an ill–concieved website may make the information difficult or impossible to understand. This situation is analigous to VLogs without captions, because a person who is Blind or Low–Vision will find the information difficult or impossible to understand as well.
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Originally Posted by Gamer12
Until then, I wouldn't support your notion of captioning the vlogs unless all d/Deaf and hearing bloggers ASL-caption their blogs. Until then... That's how it will and should work.
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That is not how it works, because many people who are both Deaf and Hearing caption their VLogs, and many others will follow. In addition, I will continue to congratulate people who caption for their efforts to provide accessibility.
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Originally Posted by Gamer12
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Simply because some individuals who are Hearing choose not to caption their ASL videos does not mean that people should not caption them. She is really, really hot, though.
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Originally Posted by Gamer12
Take ASL courses or ask an ASL-fluent d/Deaf person to teach them. Some of them would love to spend their time teaching ASL. I know I do. ASL classes is almost always fun for everyone to take.
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Of course, we should encourage positive behavior by spreading the beauty of the language. I agree. It's wonderful to share that knowledge with everyone.
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Originally Posted by Deaf258
Ella is one of the most respected people specializing in ASL. I wouldn't knock on her if I were you. If you have used Signing Naturally ASL books, you'd recognize her. Right or wrong, she has a good sense of making points to encourage Deaf people to think and be more independent.
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Just because she is well–known and/or respected and published by a professional scholarly source does not mean her field of expertise is relevant. She is published in professional scholarly work for her expertise in American Sign Language, true, however, she is not within any field of expertise concerning captions or their ease of implimentation. Signers can use VRS to leave themselves voicemail and check that voicemail with IP–Relay to obtain text. They can use that text to easily create closed captions, or at simply copy–and–paste the text for a text transcript. It's that easy!
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Originally Posted by Deaf258
Eye for an eye?? HELLO!?! Deaf people have been trying to communicate with hearing people for at least 3,000 years. Pray tell, when will the hearing people (in general) actually start paying attention and listen to us!?!?
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You musn't depend on others to change the world for you. If you want people to listen to you, then you must get their attention. If you want their attention, then they must be able to understand the information you want to share. If they cannot access the information you want to share, then they cannot understand you. Thus, you must make sure your information is accessible. On the internet, in order for you to make your information accessible, you must provide a text element for every non–text element. Therefore, you must provide closed captions or a text transript in order for everyone to understand you in your VLogs.
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Originally Posted by Deaf258
I am tired of seeing or hearing other d/Deaf, Hard of Hearing and hearing people rant that everyone who are Deaf MUST caption their vlogs! What about the hearing vlogs and podcasts?? I don't see hearing people making sure other hearing people transcribe, caption or subtitle their podcasts or vlogs! We Deaf people have worked hard many, many times and the Deaf people who have lived before our time have also worked harder than hearing people did.
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I have seen many people caption their videos. I just showed you that
World of Warcraft machinima. (Well, it had open captions instead of closed captions, but YouTube does not support closed captions.)
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Originally Posted by Deaf258
I think that by not captioning the vlogs, I am helping preserve ASL and making hearing people who care to try harder to learn ASL. Again, my point proven, you said we Deaf should caption our vlogs. That means Deaf vloggers would have to work harder than hearing vloggers. Man, this reeks of a big pile of shi.. err, Audism.
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No one is saying you must caption you VLogs. I am only asking if you should. However, you must provide a text version of your VLogs, which could be a simple transcript, so people who are DeafBlind, Low–Vision, or DeafBlind can access them.
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Originally Posted by Deaf258
Is that fair? An eye for an eye makes the world blind, you say??
Next time, friend or foe, if someone tells me I must caption my vlogs, I got 2 words to say:
Fuck off! |
Your negative behavior will only lead to more negative behavior.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deaf258
P.S. If Ella *DID* provide captions or transcription of her vlog, it would defeat the WHOLE point of her message!
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Any person who is DeafBlind completly missed the entire point of her message, because they could not access it! In addition, if intepreter viewed her VLog and provided a text transcript, it would share her message, not destroy it.
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Originally Posted by ismi
I do recognize her, and I'm not "knocking on her". But appeal to authority is still a logical fallacy.
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True, do you believe anyone listens to Nesmuth's claimed Deaf "authority"?
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Originally Posted by ismi
Like the other people here, I don't think vlogs can (or should) be forced to be captioned; but I do think it's the right thing to do.
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I agree. We should not punish anyone for not captioning, but we should applaud people who do.
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Originally Posted by ismi
I'm not hearing. I didn't grow up signing, but I am most certainly not hearing. As you say, Deaf people have been trying to communicate with hearing. But cutting lines of communication doesn't help that. Look at it like this: if past communication attempts were on an individual level, vlogging gives the opportunity to share a mass message, to share information not about *one* deaf person, but about the whole Deaf world. It's an incredible opportunity to work for change. Does it suck that the hearing world doesn't already understand Deafness? Sure. But that's what happens when you're in a minority group, whether you're Deaf, black, LGBT, disabled, etc.
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Exactly! When I go to a Gay parade, is it Queers only? No, anyone can come: Queer, Straight, Bi, whatever. When the North Halsted Merchant's Association has a musical preformance for people who are Queer, is it Hearies only? No, they
always have a Sign Language intepreter, and people who are Hearing become very interested when they see the interpreter and want to know more. People who are Queer know about Gays and Lesbians in their own community, but some of them don't realize that some are also Deaf. When we make the information accessible, it broadens the number of colors in our beautiful rainbow.
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Originally Posted by ismi
I see many spoken-language podcasts and vlogs that are captioned, and more are being created all the time. Not all of them, but it's a start. Consider that we are not the dominant group here.
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It is getting better all the time.
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Originally Posted by ismi
It's not a matter of working harder. It's a matter of increased access.
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Bingo! The effort you make expands the accessibily of the information you provide.
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Originally Posted by ismi
Work harder than hearing vloggers? Well, first off, there are very few hearing bloggers. Second, I would point out that being in the linguistic minority tends to make life a bit harder. And if you're going to throw around terms like 'audism', keep in mind 'ableism' as well, as Taric pointed out.
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That's correct. Captioning your VLogs isn't for people who do not want to understand American Sign Language. It's for people to more easily access the information you provide.
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Originally Posted by Deaf258
The podcasts and vlogs by hearing people that I wanted to watch aren't even captioned or subtitled. I have yet to see one!
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Selected Videos with Captions - Google Video
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Originally Posted by Deaf258
I don't want to carry on this debate even further, so we'll agree to disagree. You caption your vlogs. I won't bother captioning mine!
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That is your choice, and we will not punish you for not captioning, but others will share their information more easily with others, and we will applaud them for their efforts.
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Originally Posted by Gamer12
Decidedly and positively wrong. The reason I found this topic and responded to Taric's post was because the vlogs had captured a few hearing people's interests, particularly in two ASL-based vlogs. After viewing them, they asked me about ASL itself. After a patient explanation, they became curious about our ASL: the large sociological substantial aspect of Deaf culture. One hearing man brought up in the discussion about this topic, and while he differed with Taric's observation -- he's an anthropologist -- he quizzed me over about the 'needs' and 'wants' of captioning the vlogs. He divulged the social value of captioning the vlogs as "a tool that warrants the want, not need".
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An anthropologist does not warrant a fact by differing with my observation, because the implementation is not within his relevant field of expertise. Furthermore, his information is false, because although people who are Blind and Low–Vision do not need
captions, they do need some sort of text to access the information. Captions or a text transcript can satisfy that need.
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Originally Posted by Gamer12
One more thing about this captioning the vlogs subject: if there is a remote chance of making some profits in captioning the vlogs, I'd jump on the same bus Taric is riding on.
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PayPerPost :: Get Paid for Blogging, Blog Advertising, Advertise on Blogs
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Originally Posted by Gamer12
So were you saying that conservative bloggers should've written the blogs in favor of or praise liberals and heartily endorse them as 'heroes' to boost their accessiblity (reaching and handshaking over the table)? And vice versa. What? It's a matter of increased access, right?
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Access and support are two completly different things. I can access information about the Ku Klux Klan, but that does not mean I support them. Conservatives can increase the accessibility of their information by providing more ways to access it, but that does not mean they must support opposing viewpoints in order to do so. Accessibility is the ammount ability one has to obtain a product/service. Support is the action of providing assistance. If a conservative website is accessible to liberals, that means that liberals can understand the information on that website. It does not mean that the conservatives are assiting the liberals by writing information with which the liberals will agree.
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Originally Posted by Gamer12
Oy, if you or Taric would throw around 'ableism' at others who rightly suggested 'audism' regarding this topic, keep in mind 'solipsism' as well.
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Solipsism (Latin: solus, alone + ipse, self) is the philosophical idea that "My mind is the only thing that exists", an epistemological or metaphysical position that knowledge of anything outside the mind is unjustified. Here is an example of such narrowmindedness.
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Originally Posted by Gamer12
Anyone disagrees with what I suggested above is rich-deservedly contemplated as a hypocrite and phony for supporting the captioning the vlogs.
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This person, Gamer12, believes that anything outside of one's own mind unjustified. Oh, wait, that's you! You are not a published, professional scholarly researcher within your relevant field of expertise. Thus, anyone who disagrees with what you suggest does not deserve to be called any names you think, because your opinion is not a statement of fact. Anyone can have any opinion they like, because you do not have any evidence to show that your opinion is any more valid.
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Originally Posted by Gamer12
I'm not sure why I chipped in and bump headed with others who threw a tantrum about the 'person-based want' namely 'captioning the vlogs' topic. The member above rightly pointed that we can only agree to disagree and if you want to caption the vlogs, go ahead and enjoy it but suggest you to keep the tantrum and woe-is-meism to yourself. It's part of maturity.
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Agreed, you should only feel sorry for people who feel sorry for themselves.
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Originally Posted by Deaf258
You said it! |
Hello, that was about you!
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Originally Posted by Deaf258
Frankly, I am tired of many hearing people. I am tired of having to fight everyday to keep my job. I am tired of feeling like I never felt one minute's worth of job security during the times I've worked different jobs for the past 14 years! I am tired of finding out a new coworker has been promoted and given a raise even though I worked better and have a higher seniority! I am tired of being bored at family reunions and being harshly reminded I am not part of the family (bec I was never included in their conversations)! I am tired of abbreviated stories and instructions. I am tired of putting in 4 or 5 times the effort into the relationships I have with hearing people when they lay back and do nothing to improve on their end.
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