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Originally Posted by Teresh
Christianity isn't the only religion that believes all men are damned from birth, but it's the only major one that does. You want to convert people because you have an internal hate of humanity--or, rather, you believe all humanity is bad from birth and that Jesus is the only way to save them. Sadly, you are mistaken, but that's a purely theological issue.
Humans are saved through human action, not faith in Jesus. But you're a Christian, so you'll never understand that concept.
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Sorry, but that is not according to the Old Testament:
Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
We cannot work our way to heaven. Humans cannot clean themselves up. You try wiping a table down with a filthy rag and what happens? We are the only group that believes that our God loved us enough to come down from heaven itself and die for our sins.
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Louis Lapides is a Christian ordained by the Evangelical Free Church of America. If he is a Jew at all, he knows little or nothing about Judaism. He does not have a rabbinical ordination, so I have serious doubts he knows anything at all about Jewish law or the contents of the Talmud.
Cite people who actually know what they're talking about. Cite qualified rabbinic authorities, not a missionary to Jews who is willing to pretend to be qualified and knowledgable in order to deceive Jews into converting.
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As a child, he grew up in a Jewish home, and started his higher education as a rabbi to support his schooling in a Jewish school, learning how to refute Christianity. It wasn't until he was given a Bible by a Christian and actually read it all the way through that he recognized what the truth THAT is when he left his home and joined a Christian college to get his education. Secondly, if you read Case for Christ's chapter on the fingerprint evidence, you will see just how educated he is in the Jewish ways. He is considered by even secular sources to be among the most knowledgeable people of the Old Testament prophecies. Here is a quote from Probe Ministries:
So far in Strobel's interviews with scholars we have affirmed that Jesus did claim to be God, He wasn't insane or emotionally disturbed, and He did things that only God would do. Now we want to review Strobel's interview with Louis Lapides, a Jewish believer as to whether Jesus actually fit the Old Testament picture of what the Messiah would be like.
One of the important pieces of evidence that convinced Lapides that Jesus was the long-looked-for Messiah was the fulfillment of prophecy. There are over forty prophecies concerning the coming Messiah, and Jesus fulfilled every one. Some say this is just coincidence. But, the odds of just one person fulfilling even five of these prophesies is less than one chance in one hundred million billion--a number millions of times greater than the number of all people who have ever lived on earth.{5}
But maybe this isn't all it seems. Objections to the correlation of Jesus' life to the prophecies of the Messiah fall into four categories. The first is the coincidence argument, which we just dispelled. Perhaps the most frequently heard argument is that the gospel writers fabricated the details to make it appear that Jesus was the Messiah. But the gospels were written close enough in time to the actual events that, if false, critics could have exposed the details. Certainly this is true of those in the Jewish community who had every reason to squash this new religion before it got started.
Third, there is the suggestion that Jesus intentionally fulfilled these many prophecies so as to make Himself appear as the Messiah. That's conceivable for some of the prophecies, such as Jesus' riding into Jerusalem on a donkey, but for others it's impossible. How could Jesus arrange for his ancestry, or place of birth, or the method of execution, or that soldiers would gamble for his clothing? The list goes on.
Fourth, perhaps Christians have just ripped these so-called prophecies out of context and have misinterpreted them. When asked, Lapides sighed and replied:
You know, I go through books that people write to try to tear down what we believe. That's not fun to do, but I spend the time to look at each objection individually and then to research the context and the wording in the original language. And every single time, the prophecies have stood up and shown themselves to be true.{6}
What I found most intriguing about the interviews was the combination of academic integrity on the part of these scholars alongside a very evident love for the One of whom they were speaking. For these scholars, finding the historical Jesus was not just an academic exercise, but also a life-changing personal encounter with Jesus. Perhaps it can be for you too.
And 40 is just the number of prophecies in the Torah, he deals with those in the rest of the Old Testament as well.
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The Rabbis are teachers. Are you going to make an argument that the American school system controls the country because they teach children how to read and write? If you're willing to make that argument, then and only then can you say that the Rabbis control Judaism.
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No, but when the teachers filter what they are giving the students, they control the learning curve, and thus, they control what is taught. They will never tell their students that the current Hebrew copies of the Torah and Tanakh are based on the Greek Septaguint, because then they wouldn't have a leg to stand on to say that the virgin in the prophecy was mistranslated, because the Greek word literally means virgin, while the current translation in Hebrew has the word betulah, which means young woman. The Old Testament was originazlly in two languages, then it was changed to the language of the day, which was Greek, and now the meaning is lost in translation for some of the prophecies. Thank God that the KJV Bible is based on the Septaguint and not the current Hebrew words.
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That is not the general consensus. It's a misconception held by some, but it is not the consensus.
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held by historians, it is the general consensus. I showed you the websites. Here, I will quote each one to show you.
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Originally Posted by http://www.edwardvictor.com/GeneralFrame2main.htm
The consensus of opinion, however, is that the synagogue originated during the Babylonian Exile, beginning in 586 B.C., when deprived of the Temple, Jews would meet from time to time to read the scriptures. Whatever the exact origin, it is during the first century C.E., particularly after the destruction of of the Second Temple by the Romans in 70 A.D. that the synagogue emerges as a well established institution and the center of the social and religious life of the people.
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According to the Jewish sources, the people met on Market days to engage in their worship while in Babylonian captivity. There were Jews that wondered throughout the Roman empire, they all met together in synagogues except for passover, when they would all meet in the temple. How do you expect them to have met for daily worship with all the people who A.)didn't even return to Israel, and B.) lived outside of the Middle East?
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That's not true. No one is currently trying to rebuild the temple and the opinion among the majority of the world's Jews is that the Temple should not and should never be rebuilt. Only a few elements of the Ultra-Orthodox are trying to get it rebuilt and they're as far off the fringe as one can get.
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They already have the blueprints drawn up, Fulfilling a prophecy in Revelations 11.
Building the Temple is still an order from the LORD, since "he shall build a house for My name, and he shall be My son, and I will be his Father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel FOREVER." (Chron 22:9-10 )
According to the Torah, Israel and the Temple should stand forever. Therefore, Israel and the Temple should be rebuilt after each destruction.
This is a quote from one such site.
This is a news site:
The Israeli rabbinical council involved with re-establishing the Sanhedrin, is calling upon all groups involved in Temple Mount research to prepare detailed architectural plans for the reconstruction of the Jewish Holy Temple.
The move followed the election earlier this week of Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz as temporary president of a group aspiring to become Judaism's highest-ranking legal-religious tribunal.
The Baltimore Sun posted this 8 hours ago:
Conversely, some Jewish groups in Jerusalem hope to clear the path for their own messiah by rebuilding a temple on a site now occupied by one of Islam's holiest shrines. Artisans have re-created priestly robes of white linen, gem-studded breastplates, silver trumpets and solid-gold menorahs to be used in the Holy Temple - along with two 6-ton marble cornerstones for its foundation.
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Right--They didn't exist until AFTER the Temple was destroyed, not before, which is what I said the first time.
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AFTER SOLOMON'S TEMPLE WAS DESTROYED. The first use is recorded in the Torah. When they met on Market days to worship.
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The Septuagint is a translation of the Tanakh from Hebrew to Greek. You place fault on the Jews with the Septuagint because you don't want to question your beliefs. But that's the Christian way, so you're giving the right answer in the scope of your religion.
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And it is what the current translations are based on. In fact, Greek Septaguints are the only ancient documents we have of the Old Testament.
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That doesn't mean they *ate* the blood.
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And because the disciples drank the unfermented wine, does it mean they ate the blood? It is actually a symbol that Jesus was giving his own blood as the sacrificial Lamb for all mankind.
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No, that's not the case either. You really don't understand kashrut as well as you'd like to think you do. Kashrut doesn't represent sin. Kashrut represents purity.
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And if it is UN-kashrut, then it is UN-pure. Kashrut is the Hebrew word that we get Kosher from. Don't play word games with me. I ain't in the mood.
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Then you have pastors, ministers, etc. which are the same thing.
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No they aren't. Pastors are simply leaders. We don't confess in front of them or ask them to pray for our sins. They are simply our version of the rabbi. Our High Priest is Jesus Christ Himself.
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I'm not familiar with the Blue Letter Bible. What language is it in?
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originally in English, but the online version, which is what I use, has a Hebrew-Greek-English lexicon that gives a full definition for the word.
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I didn't say that Jews write objectively either--Actually, I said exactly the opposite. Stop putting words in my mouth.
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Then why do you say that JFJ is an objective source.
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It's very easy to deny it--Judaism does not have the concept of original sin. That concept was invented by Christians. Humans can and do sin in their lives, but they start with a clean slate and a capability to do both good and evil. How one is judged by God is determined by how one acts, not what one believes in.
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And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. How do you expect our good acts to look better than our bad ones if that is true?