Jiro

You didn't read carefully. I said your view is anti-war even though you're fixing up soldiers and you know they're going back to war to kill some more (no not the innocents... yes the enemies but expect some collateral damages).

Really? How do you know their experiences? Were you a soldier? Were you in combat zone? Hearing their stories and being in combat are different. I think you misunderstood their experiences. War is not black and white. Insurgents are not dressed with military uniform. They get traumatized because the insurgents USED the innocents as shield or bait and forced the soldiers to kill them. Also - they get traumatized by shooting at the enemies but that enemy was just a boy with AK-47. What is he supposed to do? Let that boy kills him??? It's not easy killing a little boy who is shooting you with AK-47 or wearing bomb straps.

Mafia? But you're the one who said they were being ordered to kill innocents. You're painting them as mafia hitmen. You have not clarified your statement on that issue - "they are being ordered to kill innocents." Do you realize that is a very strong accusation? That's what upsets me the most and our fellow veterans like Chase and Reba. Can you show me the proof of that accusation? The news about couple of soldiers raping little girl and murdering her and her family does not count as "being ordered to kill." I have heard of checkpoint horror stories where a car carrying a family did not stop as ordered and the soldiers had to open fire on them. they ALSO get traumatized by CONSTANT threat they have to deal with every single second of their life on the ground. They hear stories about a car carrying a family approaching to checkpoint area without slowing down and stopping and the soldiers did not want to shoot at them. Result? it exploded - a suicide bomber using his family as a cover. The soldiers at all checkpoints can't risk that chance.

If you are given an illegal order even directly from your superiors, it is your lawful duty to disobey. We tried German soldiers after WWII who often said "Well, I was just following orders." In my book - that stops being an excuse the seconds you know that those orders are wrong.

.....that's same thing. You're double-talking. When defending and protecting people, they are expected to kill somebody. Our war machines with big guns are not for decoration purpose. That's why i said military is in business of killing. I'm sorry if you misunderstood it as in business of "massacring innocents."

?????? Again - you misread and misunderstood my simple quote. My quote was "I don't really sympathize for idiots who think they're in for some explosion fun and then they ended up being traumatized, having nightmares. They're idiots - watching too much Rambo movies." Get it? Most people signed up for honorable purpose and also for benefit purpose - a legitimate reason. There are handful of young people who signed up just because they thought it's cool to shoot something like they see in Rambo movies. They're an idiots. Beside.... war's ugly. What did you expect? I'd probably be traumatized and have nightmares too if I were in military. So what? it's part of the job. Everybody should be aware of it and be expected to have those when they sign up for it. Back in old time - that was a different story. They had a draft until 1970's.

no no it does matter. Killing soldiers and killing innocents do matter. Do not confuse enemies with innocents.

See above. A very serious accusation. Prove it.

uh... we did not have tanks, fighter jets, helicopters with big guns for decoration. That is designed to kill. duh?


no - my common sense and view on war is REALISTIC. Yours is not.

I complained along with Chase and Reba because you've made such strong accusation like being ordered to kill. There are many ignorant war-supporters I do not like either because their reasoning is ignorant and racist - "kill them f***king ragheads! blow them up!" At first - I supported the war because I was led to believed that Iraq had WMD. Now I'm against the war because it was a lie but that does not mean I want them out now because we're already in deep shit. That also doesn't mean I think we attacked for oil. These details do not concern me since I do not have all the facts on the table. I'll wait for legal proceedings to make a ruling out of this mess.

Do you want us to conquer Nazi in Germany and then leave Germany after war's over? Your country would be 100% communist and you'd be speaking Russian. Same thing - it is irresponsible of us to leave Iraq broken and defenseless. What can be done for now is to impeach Bush and arrest the war profiteers.


because you are nice and you are a civilian. These soldiers do not want to argue or dissent because by doing that - it's a treason or they may be subjected to violations of military laws. Ever considered that? Please do yourself a favor and stop talking about war issues with soldiers and your coworkers WHILE ON DUTY. Feel free to discuss about it with them during off-duty at some bars.

I get upset at anti-war protesters who make such strong accusation without proof and keep harping on "killing innocents." Reasonable and educated anti-war protesters would say that it is an illegal war and they do not work for US Army. But you work for US Army and you repeatedly said "why kill innocents? they're being ordered to kill innocents" - now you see why that makes your position less credible and hypocritical? You should know better like what I said about checkpoint horror stories.

My friend is a journalist and has a very liberal political view (quite an opposite of my view but not all) and is very very very against Iraq War. We frequently have very productive debates on most issues because his view and opinions have supports to back it up but you do not. At least he's not a hypocrite by dissenting against something while earning paycheck from same thing.